View full transcript
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Hello, and thank you for joining a very special Women Talk Money. I'm Alex Roca, your host for today's conversation. I'm so pleased to be kicking off our special series celebrating Women's History Month. We have three events lined up for you over the coming weeks, all about ways to invest in yourself, your being and your future. Today's event is about creating space for your goals.
We have two incredible women with us today. First, Randelle Lenoir, VP Workplace Regional Leader, no stranger to the Women Talk Money community. So happy to have you back with us.
RANDELLE LENOIR: Good to be here.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Yeah, of course. And we are thrilled to welcome our special guest, Mindy Kaling. I don't think she needs much of an intro, but I'm going to share a few quick highlights anyway. Many of us know her from her lengthy on screen resume, from her roles ranging from The Office to The Mindy Project to The Morning Show. She also has many roles off-screen as a trailblazing writer and producer, entrepreneur, and all-around creative force, whose work has inspired so many of us. To name a few, she's created and produced hit shows like The Mindy Project, Never Have I Ever, and her latest-- season two coming soon-- Running Point. We're very excited about that one. Mindy built a career on rewriting the rules and creating space for stories and perspectives that we don't hear nearly enough, so she's really the perfect person to help us kick off Women's History Month as we talk about making room for you and your dreams.
And for those of you who may remember, Mindy also joined us a few years back, so welcome back to Women Talk Money, Mindy.
MINDY KALING: I am so happy to be here. I had such a great time a couple years ago doing that, and it's great. I love talking to women and I love talking about money, guys. So happy to be here.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Important topics, and we're thrilled to have you back. This event is all about creating space for what matters in your life, whatever that means to you.
Maybe it's a new job, or spending more time with your kids, or just time to breathe. Mindy, with everything on your plate between work, family and everything else, how do you create time for what's most important to you?
MINDY KALING: So the good thing about me is that I have no hobbies, and my job is something that I've only dreamed of having since I was a child. So what's most important to me are my children and my jobs. These were like my fantasies from when I was in my early 20s, and now I have them. And so they're both exhausting. They both are roller coasters emotionally, and they're both aging me, but they're also the things that bring me unquantifiable joy.
And so for me, I'm lucky because it's like going to Hawaii. I think that's fun. But truly, I'm not this person that I'm like, what? I don't get to play golf anymore because of my job or for work? Or I don't get to go to a group workout class? I see my trainer in the morning a couple times a week. I'm trying to eat my protein, but the good thing for me I love is that I really feel very satisfied. And not everyone does feel satisfied, but I happen to with the spending the time with kids at home, going to work, and then the little in between times that I get to do, the very basic, necessary health things that I love to do, like getting movement in and everything.
But it's not easy. It's definitely not easy, and it's something that no one trained me to do this. It wasn't like my mom had to sit down with me and was like, here's what you're going to do if you want to have your dream job and have children. And women keep this silent juggling act in their head. Until you have good female friends or mentors or you come to something like this, where people can give you a tip or two, or at least make you feel better about feeling overwhelmed yourself. But that's how I approach it.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I love it. Alignment with what you want to go after and what you love to do. That makes so much sense. And how about you, Randelle? When life feels full, what do you do to reclaim that time and that energy of yours?
RANDELLE LENOIR: I resonate with so much of what Mindy was saying. You're younger. You have these big dreams of what your life will be like. And if you're fortunate, you're lucky, you get to live it, build all these relationships. You build this career, this skill, these responsibilities, and routines that really make your life so beautiful. But if you're not careful, all of that can feel big. And that bigness you're trying to juggle and maintain it, also.
I'm in the phase of my life where I still have dreams, but I also want to enjoy what I've built for myself. So I'm really just trying to invite myself to slow down and be present. On the protecting your energy and boundaries thing, that's really what I'm about this year.
I'm thinking about just little things that I've been trying to do to invite this into my life. So evening routines. I'm a morning person, not so much an evening person, and I want to get good sleep, so I want to wind down.
And you know one thing that is really transformed the way that I'm thinking about slowing down? I'm cooking dinner, and I got to listen to a podcast. I got to listen to an audiobook. I got to watch a movie or something. Why don't I just cook dinner? Single- tasking rather than multitasking, and trying to build that little habit into my life, just to make myself be present and slow down a little bit. And it goes to work and career, too. I have so many things that I can do. I have so many opportunities that are coming my way.
How can I refine and be intentional and deliberate about the things that I choose to give my energy to? And that's really how I'm trying to balance out the fullness of my life and the possibility of what's to come tomorrow.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I love that. Single-tasking. I'm going to remember that one. As women, Mindy, you said it yourself. We tend to juggle a lot of responsibilities. It almost feels like an understatement. And there are some big feelings associated with the phrase "work-life balance." Mindy, how does it make you feel?
MINDY KALING: I think I don't have to tell everyone here, but balance is a myth. So for me, I have this little plan in my mind, which is, I work. I'm working so much that to the point where I realize-- basically, what I realized is exactly when things are about to fly off the rails, and then I jump in. So I work so much, and I'm there on set, just until I feel like my daughter is calling the nanny mommy. And then I jump back in before that happened, and then spend time with them until they're-- and I'm with my kids as much as I can be until I'm set.
They're like, hey, where's Mindy? She hasn't been here for a while. But it's just managing catastrophes and jumping in just before something becomes a huge problem. And once I became really good at that, knowing what the limits were for the different relationships, that really helped me. And now, the other thing, too, is my mom worked. It's the only thing I ever saw. She was an OB/GYN. And I have to say that my reaction to that was that I thought she was the best.
I was like, my mom is so glamorous. It's so amazing that she's the breadwinner in our family. I never stigmatized it. Different people are born different ways, and I am hoping that my children get the same for me. And the biggest way that I do it, honestly, Alexandra, is by not demonizing work to my kids. It's like, honey, I wish I could come, but I have work. I can hear people saying that. I've said that myself. And then work becomes this thing that you hate that keeps you away from your kids.
And I want them to how much I love my work, so that they can love their jobs and realize what they have to look forward to, and that mom isn't leaving because she's doing something she hates and that she loves it so much, but she's doing something that she loves to do to make our lives better. But that was a big realization that I made in the past year or so is like, don't make work be this terrible thing.
First of all, it's a lie. I love my job to a degree. I love my kids more. But I was like, who is this helping by demonizing work?
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I love that answer. It reminds me, my grandfather used to say all the time, why do I need to go on vacation? My work is my vacation. He loved it so much and worked until the day he died. So totally understand that love for your job and not wanting to demonize it. It can pay to be selective about where we put our energy. So how do you choose which projects to pursue? And how do you if an opportunity is right for you?
MINDY KALING: To me, I used to travel a lot more for work. I would for a wrinkle in time, and for Ocean's eight, I would be going to New York, and London, and New Zealand, and all of those things, and that was very appealing to me. And I think that has been the biggest single thing that has changed is, I pivoted more from an on-camera talent where I would be acting in things, and the hours were 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM. And when I decided to have children, I was like, I love acting. There's other parts of it, too, that were not as great. Being on camera means that you're at the mercy of whatever anybody wants to say about your appearance, your acting, your everything that you can do. And I had been like, you know what? I've done this since I was 24. I did that from 24 to 38. I was like, maybe it's OK for a break, not just because I wanted to have kids and have a little bit more time, but my job switched a little bit to creating shows.
And what I love about that is I get to be myself. I don't have to have full glam. I don't have to worry about how I look. I'm in a job where it's not like I'm a slob or anything, because I like to dress nicely for work or whatever. But it's not based on that thing that is fleeting. Basing my career on something that it just afforded me so much freedom, I felt. And I've honestly never been happier. So I have loved that change in my life, and I still get to go be glamorous now and then, but it's been wonderful to shift things so that I can be at home doing a-- be at home more, and then also getting to a appreciate a different part of my life.
Also, money. Honestly, is it worth it? Is this going to be like-- I got back yesterday from a one-day trip to do a speaking engagement. And I have a number, as I'm sure many of you people have a number for whether it's a raise, or a new salary to make you leave, to go to a different place, or to keep your job, or to do whatever. I have a number. And I used to be-- I used to feel embarrassed about wanting to be like, here's my number, because I would see articles in the press about actresses who are like, well, I'm not going to get parity, and it was a millions and millions of dollars. And I was like, that's so unlikable. Who wants to hear about you and your millions and millions of dollars, and you didn't get parity? And I was like, I'm not making that much money, but as much money as them, but I think it's important to have my financial bar that I will leave town to go do something for.
And once I accepted that and stopped released guilt for having the "hey, what is my time worth" conversation with myself, I felt a lot better.
RANDELLE LENOIR: Yeah, first, I just want to go back to something that you said about balance being a myth. And a lot of what you were just describing is the dynamics of life to have the capacity to show up fully for the moment that you're in, the decisions that you're making. Is it right for me to spend time with my kids right now? Is it right for me to spend time in front of the camera, behind the camera? All of the beautiful opportunities that you have in being able to be present and make what the best decision is for you.
I also like there's a dynamic of, you said, I don't want to perform when I don't have to perform. I just want to be. And that fills me up and in how our mothers can also be a model for that possibility is to-- I think that's beautiful. I relate so deeply to that.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I love that, Randelle. And recently, you had talked a little bit about the importance of saying no, and how important it is. So, Mindy, what lessons have you learned around saying no over the years?
MINDY KALING: To me, saying no is important, but what's even more important is the timing of the no. I used to say no. And instead of being decisive and just being like, I don't think I'm going to be able to do that, or it's not really worth my time, instead of saying no politely at the beginning, I would do that thing where I was like, oh, I really like that person, and I would drag it out, my no. And then I would say no much later, and then the person would be pissed at me.
So what I have learned is the timing of the no is almost more important than the no itself. I am never mad when someone says to me the same day I send an email to them saying, hey, could you show up for this, and they're like, hey, I can't do it, but I love you. Ask me for the next time. I am never mad. I'm like, thank you for honoring my time. What I hate is when people ghost me, or they're like, I'll let you in on a little bit. And then, just before, closer to the event, people bail.
We all have experienced that. We've all been on both sides of that. You want to be able to do it, so you just don't commit to the no at the beginning. So for me, it's been about my heart and my mind want to say no immediately, but there's this sense of politeness. Or in polite society, we wait a long time so we seem like we were torn about it. That's not how the other person perceives it. The other person's like, hey, just give me a direct answer.
And that's the thing. I'm like, by the way, it's a constant struggle. Of course, I'm one of these-- I'm a person who just wants everyone to like me all the time. But that is my new thing is. How quickly can I tell someone no? That actually shows more respect, even though in the moment, it doesn't feel like it.
RANDELLE LENOIR: Yeah, the no is so hard when at the other end of the no is somebody you care a lot about, or an opportunity, or this is exciting, and I should want it. But it's best to make these choices in what's serving our greatest good, what's in alignment with where we are, what season we're in. I'm thinking about just my impulse to say yes, how I was raised. I think women, too, we're just kind of raised to be ultra responsible, show up for other people, do more than what's asked, anticipate others' needs.
And I think that that can create a setting, if you relate to me, create a setting where somebody asks you for something. Somebody trusts you to help, and it's just this automatic yes. Yes, yes, yes, I'll do it. Yes, I'll do it. What I've been trying to practice is putting a little bit of space between the impulse to say yes and give myself the space to really feel, is this right for me to say yes? To your point, Mindy, because if I can say-- if I know it's no right away, I should say no for that relationship and for that opportunity to honor it, and not have to go back at the 11th hour and renegotiate terms, if you can. Sometimes, but sometimes it's fine to go back and say, hey, things have changed and I need to pivot.
MINDY KALING: For sure.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: That's such a good call-out, Randelle. And before you keep going, I just want to call out, no is a full sentence.
RANDELLE LENOIR: Sure is.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: It's a good reminder. It's a good reminder. What were you going to say, though?
RANDELLE LENOIR: I was going to also bring in, so you're flustered maybe. Somebody important or something important is coming to you, and you realize you want to say yes, but you have to say no. It's a hard thing, setting the boundary. I find that a framework is usually useful for language to say no when we have it on the screen here, and it's really about acknowledging the opportunity and expressing gratitude.
Just because it's not known for you right now doesn't mean that you can't appreciate that it came to you, or you can appreciate that somebody asked you to do it. Share some context if you want. No Is a full answer. But if you want, just say, hey, I'm just not in a space where I can handle it. I got this big project. I got to focus on this. I have a personal rule of that. And then wish them luck. If you have resources or tips, share it real quick, but that's just a nice framework that makes me feel good about saying no when I might be a little overwhelmed in the moment.
And oftentimes I'm using this after I say, let me think about it, again, giving yourself space to respond your best self, and not your reactive self.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: That's fantastic, and it's such a good call out to take that moment and really consider whether or not you have the bandwidth to say yes, and honoring that relationship and what it means. It also can be easier to say yes to opportunities that you're excited by, when you know that your bases are covered, and that your money is working to help you reach your goals. So, Mindy, you've said that you draw motivation from being the breadwinner in your family. You even just said it a few moments ago.
How has that helped fuel you?
MINDY KALING: I think that the terror of paying my bills is a really good motivating factor for me. I don't come from money. I don't have a rich husband or a rich ex-husband. So my decision, and it was mine alone to have three children, was like, that is a big financial decision. And I said I love my job, which I do, but I need my job, too. And I'm sure many people can relate. So I'm lucky that I love it, but I'd have to do it even if I hated it, if that makes sense.
And I think that making money is one thing. Learning how to manage your money was something that was a completely different thing. In my mind, I'm like, I'm doing enough. I'm making the money, I'm putting in the bank. And then someone being like, yeah, but what is the bank And I'm like, no, don't keep adding elements to this. I don't have time for this. And then again, in the past five to six years, being like, OK, figuring out what I'm actually doing with my money to make it go the furthest has been the next step.
I think when I was raised again, I bring up polite society a lot, because at least me being in an Indian family, we didn't talk about money very much. My parents didn't talk to me about money. We didn't talk a lot about a lot of things, but that's the one where I'm the most like, I am in the dark here. But I also am a feminist. I refuse to be this woman who's like, I don't know anything about my money. But it's just like, and so I've been trying to reclaim it.
And so to me, it's incredibly motivating, yeah, the fact that I gotta do it. And yeah, now, Alexandra, I'm like, I don't know if I answered your question. But this is like, I just was like, if I can't be real on this, then I don't what I'm going to be real.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: No, we appreciate your realness. And you absolutely answered the question. It's, being that breadwinner, how has that inspired you? And it sounds like you're hungry for that success, and you're hungry to be able to take care of your family, and that continues feeding that hunger. So thank you for that.
MINDY KALING: I'll tell you something else.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Please.
MINDY KALING: I had the best thing that I can do for my kids. I don't want to be one of these LA moms that my kids are in their 30s and they're living with me. They gotta earn. And to me, we ain't got no trust funds in this. Even if I was rich enough to have it, I wouldn't give them one. And I want to help them if they need to deposit on a future house when they get older want to go to grad school. And I think it'll be really helpful, of course, I'll pay for that. I have the means.
But this ain't the world where they're doing that. I don't have that. That's just not the framework that I was raised in and that I want for them. And so for me, I really feel like I think working and showing them that this is what's normal is incredibly important. I want them to have it imprint on them the way that my mother working imprinted on me not just because it's like, you got to make your own money. But, hey, what can I contribute? How do I get out of here and do this?
And so that's another real-- and that's really real. I really do think about that all the time. In LA, the children of celebrities and the children of wealthy people, it's a very different lifestyle than I think almost anywhere in the world. And I want them to know that it isn't normal. So that's something that's very important to me.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: That makes so much sense. And I think them seeing how excited you are about your job and having that hunger, even after finding success, is going to be such a motivator for them and such an inspiration for them to find that thing that gives them that hunger and gives them that motivation. So thank you for sharing that.
MINDY KALING: Yeah, of course.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: A big part of this conversation is identifying what's important to us, while also coming up with ways to help protect those things that we've identified as important, which includes the money that we all work so hard to earn and save. So, Randelle, I'm coming to you with this one. What are some examples of financial boundaries? And how can we put them into practice?
RANDELLE LENOIR: Yeah, I think at the foundation a lot of things that we were saying, the ability to say yes or no to the things that you should and need to say yes or no to changes as you have financial stability. So to me, financial boundaries is talking about, how can I create an environment that inspires success? How can I create an environment that protects my financial wellness, my financial future, not just when I'm perfect and I'm hitting all the notes that I'm supposed to hit at the right time? When I'm at my lowest.
What's going to create an environment where I make good choices more often than not? So that's what I'm going to talk about with boundaries, because again, this will put you in a place where you're more often able to set boundaries and make choices to your alignment, highest good, your best self that's best for you and your family. So there are three categories that I want to bring to your attention, and I'm personally really involved in this, about setting up boundaries. And we'll add a graphic here.
The first one is curb. What can you curb? And I was just talking about environments that not just work for you when you're at your best, and you're hitting all the notes, but at your worst. And I don't about y'all. When I've had a stressful day, or when I'm not feeling well, there are two things that I do that aren't really good for my finances, probably other things too. But let's talk about money. So I want to flop on the couch, scroll social media. This ad comes up, and I'm like, oh, man, that looks good. I need it. I'm buying it right away, buying it.
Soon, my whole house is full of stuff that I bought when I was stressed out, that I don't really love. It's just there. And I spend all this money on it. So one way to curb it is to take the-- remove your card. Take some of that stuff off. Make it harder to get to. And another thing that I do is, hey, I'm sitting on the couch. I may have a perfect dinner planned for myself to cook. And I'm like, you know what? I don't want to cook. I want a burger and fries. And you know what? I'm going to pay three, four times the amount because I don't want to leave my couch. So I'm going to order it.
So creating a little friction on some of that stuff can buffer some of the financial decisions that don't necessarily work out to your good. I'm just talking about me. I don't have to be talking about you there. So then we have automate. Automate. I feel like every day, I wake up with a bucket of decisions I can make for the day, and that's it. When they're done, they're done. And the size of that bucket is based on how well I've taken care of myself the day before or days before.
Some days, that bucket, I have a lot of decisions to make, some days I have not. Not that many. I can't help it. So I'm able to use those decisions on what's going to serve me and what my wellness best when I can actually automate some of the things that I don't need to make a decision on. So for example, saving. If it's automatically coming out of my paycheck, I don't need to make a decision on it. It's just happening.
Investing. I think that's why people are so good with 4:01 and stuff and those types of investing. It's happening without you having to pick the investment, deciding what to buy and what to sell, so on and so forth. So I even heard that you can automate your staples in your household. Come at the clip that you used them up. Automate what you can, pay your bills automatically, and remove some of that decision capacity that takes. And then lastly is delegate. Things that maybe somebody else can do for you, if you have the means, let them do it. So for example, a financial advisor, somebody to help you once you have a plan, you have a picture of your goals, to take those steps to move towards it, let them help you if that's the case. So delegating some of these decisions, I'm sure there's a lot of other things that we can delegate, like cooking, like cleaning, like doing laundry.
But those are just some things to create some financial boundaries in your life to help you with the space that's needed for you to set the right boundaries and focus on what you should and want to focus on.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Thank you for that, Randelle. I know you were talking about your own personal experience, but it sure sounded like you were talking about mine, so I'm going to keep that curb in mind. It feels like maybe putting some of these financial guardrails in place can free up the time, headspace and give you more peace of mind. Now, turning back to you, Mindy, do any of these resonate with you? Maybe what's a money habit that's created the most clarity for you over the years?
MINDY KALING: That was chilling when she was talking, where I was like, she's talking about me without talking about me. I'll say this. I love nice things. And because I work hard, think there's a correlation for those of us who are out there where if we work very hard, we think we should emotionally-- that's what it all comes from is like, we feel like we should emotionally deserve it. I will be scrolling through Instagram, and I'll see someone, a celebrity wearing something, and I'm like, I deserve that lifestyle, and I'm going to get that back.
That Chanel bag that everyone's talking about that's in here, I want to get it because I deserve it. I work hard. And then you're right. They arrive five days later, and I'm like, what is this? Where did this come from? But life is a balance too, because it's like, I also should be able to treat myself to things. It's just when the treating myself to things becomes a little bit more than it needs to be. And I'm getting things that-- so to me, it's been about boundaries to me is budgeting.
And it's making it so that it's a livable thing because I know myself. There's no way I'm not online shopping at least once a week. There's no way I'm doing it. But to put a budget number on that, or to know that if I'm ordering something, I have to return 50% to 60% of it, which I end up doing inevitably. But it is it's tough, even for me. I borrowed this ring for this Zoom today, and I'm like, should I own this ring? I love it.
And I'm like, no, it's OK. You can just wear something for a time. So putting budgets in place, again, I have a financial-- I have a business manager and a financial advisor. And those are things where, yes, they're not cheap, but the amount of money, the way that they they've saved me so much money, and the money they've made me through their decisions. And I meet with him. We have a Zoom once a month to talk about my investments. And so I don't, for me personally, advocate for blindly handing your money over to somebody.
But at the same time, somebody who is skilled enough to know how to maximize your dollar and make it go further, what a dream. But yeah, the budget thing is huge for me. It sucks to have to like nice things. Really, it really does.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: It's very hard. It's very hard. No, and I want to touch on two things you talked about. Mindy, you actually said my favorite word, which is budget. I know that that's not necessarily shared with everybody else, but budgeting is actually one of my favorite words because it's one of my favorite things. You can budget for the lifestyle that you want, and you can have the goodness that you want. Maybe not all of the Chanel purses, but one of the Chanel purses, and really making space within your budget to make that a reality and make it more intentional.
The second thing that you mentioned that I am so happy that you mentioned was working with a financial planner. Financial planning can be so stressful, particularly if you think that you have to do it all yourself. So I love that you're working with somebody, and more importantly, that you really value that relationship and what comes with that relationship. With that, Randelle, you mentioned automation earlier. So talking about automating our investments, can you tell us a little bit more about this?
RANDELLE LENOIR: Yeah, it's one of my favorite topics and one of my favorite things about the job that I do right now. So it's a quick story. I was joining somebody on my team, and they go out to people's jobs and help them with 401(k)s, which we all know, when you have a 401(k), you're automatically taking money out of your paycheck and it's automatically investing. That's why it tends to be one of the most successful ways that people invest.
But anyway, this company that they're at, they automatically start their associates' 401(k) contributions at 1%. And the amount of people that were in that room that didn't even realize that that 1% had started to be taken out and invested for them, so years later, they checked their account and they're like, wow, I saved this? And I didn't even feel it. I didn't even really feel it. So that just shows the power of consistency with consistent investing, and a good reminder that it doesn't have to be painful. It doesn't have to be a lot.
You can start with a little amount, depending on your goals, back to that financial plan. Long-term goals, you want to retire, you want to buy a house, you want to send a kid to school, whatever it might be. You want to build just financial freedom to retire early, do what you want, you can automate an investment account to do that. So I hope that that's something that if you're not already taking advantage of, you might take advantage of.
And if you want to learn a little bit more, there's a QR code on the screen where you can really just, again, this is all about creating that financial foundation so that you can make these power decisions in your favor, make decisions from a space of abundance and safety, and feel like you have the ground beneath you.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: 100% agree, Randelle. Thank you for sharing that. Now I want to switch gears and talk a bit more about career growth. So, Mindy, you're known for mentoring and lifting up new voices. How have you been intentional about creating room for others to grow in their career?
MINDY KALING: Yeah, it's been fascinating watching as I've gone from employee where I was a writer and an actress on The Office, but I was hired to be there to creating my own shows. And then one of the biggest ways is, when I wanted to start working in the business, I wanted to write for a show like Sex and the City or create something like that, or women with great clothes who are trying to find love. That was the show I wanted to do. And then instead, I was working at Dunder Mifflin Office, at the office in Scranton, Pennsylvania for eight years.
So that was actually a very good lesson because I loved my time there, and it would not have been what I would have chosen for myself, but it's where I got hired. But when I started doing my own shows, they primarily centered on women and women of color. And so I started hiring a lot of women and women of color, even though that's not really what was in the office writers' room. And from that experience, it's like I was hiring them. It's like, listen. I think trying to be inclusive should be a business decision.
I think it should come from not just a feeling of altruism, but a feeling of, this is going to make my shows better, because I think then it sticks. And my interests tend to be shows, again, about people of color and women. And so the world reflects that behind the scenes and in front of camera. And so it's been amazing to be able to give opportunities in the show I did called Never Have I Ever. We found this young woman, Maitreyi Ramakrishnan, who's this huge superstar. She was in Freaky Friday and all these things.
She was a 17-year-old in Canada who was in her high school play, and she sent in with her iPhone-- she just sent in an audition. And with The Sex Lives of College Girls, all of the young women on that, it's been amazing to find people who are so talented but have no access, and to be able to give them this platform. But the other thing I've noticed about hiring women, particularly writers, is the frequency with which they ask for raises versus their male counterparts.
So in a writers' room, we will have three-year contracts. So we negotiate a contract. And there's bumps for each year that you're there. But you have a three year contract. And when you sign that deal, you know what your deal is going to be for the next couple of years. Invariably, my male writers would ask for a raise, an extra raise, in addition to what their contracted rate was every single year. They have no leverage, but they just were like, I feel like I deserve a raise.
And when you're constantly asking-- by the way, I found it very annoying, but I'm being totally honest here. But if you're constantly asking, sometimes you're going to say yes because you like the people. You don't want it to be awkward at work. And I think this is getting to a topic that we all know, which is my female writers would just dutifully sit and wait for their three-year contract to be done, and then they'd negotiate when it was time to negotiate. Again, polite society.
And it put me in a tough position because as the person who was asking the studio to pay for them, it's like, I want everyone to stick to their contracts. I don't want anyone to be asking for money, but I couldn't help but notice so many of the women were like, no, I want to play by the rules. If that's what we negotiated, then I want to do that. And I was amazed being on the employer side of it to see how different the men approached it.
They're like, no, that's just a contract.
I feel like I got married this year, and I have more expenses this year because I'm married now. I have a kid this year. I have more expenses because I have a kid this year. And I don't think women think that way. And so much of us are doing so much of the labor at home, the work in the marriage, and the work at home to make families work. And we're the last people to ask for more compensation for it.
So to me, telling the story to other people, I think, is very eye-opening. I myself did not ask for a single raise when I was at the office. I just felt lucky to be there. And it wasn't until I sort of felt confident in my values. But men ask before they're fully confident, or they're just more confident going into things. So that's my answer to your question, Alexandra. I don't know if that was helpful for people to hear, but those are the things that I've learned along the way.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: It was, but I want to just do a deeper dive into that particular question. How did that change how you mentor some of these women that you bring into the industry?
MINDY KALING: Yeah, so there is no such thing as ready. You just do things when an opportunity finds itself. You just do things. So I have writers that didn't go to film school. There are women that came up, and they were PAs, and then they've never done writer's assistant work with a job for themselves. I'm like, just say yes, and you'll have to figure it out when you're doing it. And then for other women, I truly think it's about advancing them, hiring them, putting them in roles that they haven't necessarily been in before they're ready, making them a costume designer, making them a director, a writer. A female writer that I have on my show who, I think, has a really good eye and could be a director on screen, unless I'm going to be the person that encourages her to do it and tells her that she needs to and convince the studio that she would be good doing it and, by the way, be on set to make sure that it goes well, it's just not going to happen. So when there's these opportunities organically that I can push things forward or get the ball rolling, or for any of my employees, have their eyes open to ambition that they didn't necessarily was OK to have, I try to do that as much as possible.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: That's fantastic. I read somewhere that there's an ocean between mentorship and advocacy, and it sounds like you are definitely an advocate to the people that you mentor, and I love to hear it. Randelle, I want to turn to you quickly just because of time. What about those of us that maybe are feeling a little stuck, or maybe we're in a slower season of our lives? What's one thing that can be done to create momentum?
RANDELLE LENOIR: Yeah, just pulling a thread on what Mindy said about women or women of color and we've seen all that's how we're experiencing the job market right now. So I have a lot of friends and people that I know that are having a hard time. And there are three things I'll say. Three things I'll say real quick. So about the financial habits and the wellness habits, it's like you need to build the ark before the flood sort of situation.
So if you're feeling like you're in a good spot, you don't need to focus on this. I think I'm going to invite you to think about what habits build that stability for your career, build that stability for your finances. Because there are always ups and downs, and opportunities and challenges. The second thing is gratitude. I don't want to get too woo-woo on it, but it's hard to look for a job. And sometimes you can wake up with this mechanism that kind of searches for anything that confirms how bad you're feeling if you're not careful.
And that'll show. That'll affect how you show up, your confidence, your belief in things happening, your audacity to ask for the raise, and all those sorts of things. So practicing gratitude can change a little bit more of that mechanism to find things that confirm the best next steps forward. I think that that's also important, and then just show up for people. I'm all about community. We need each other. When we're at our lowest, we need somebody to pick us up. We need somebody like Mindy to be like, go ask for that raise.
We need people to build our perspective and stand us up when we need it. So show up for the people in your life.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Love that. Thank you so much. And then I'm going to close it out with one last question. Mindy, to you, when you look ahead to what's next, what are you most excited about?
MINDY KALING: When I look ahead to what's next, what am I most excited about? I feel like right now I am in the time. I can feel it, where it's like, I feel when I look back, I'll be like, oh, those were the good old days. I think that I'm in my prime in terms of I have freedom creatively, which I've never had before in my career. And so I'm really looking forward to taking on new roles. I've written and I've acted. I really want to direct, and I know that that is something that's like, I think it's 8% of directors are women or something like that.
And I think I too have been sort of afraid of it, but I am very, very excited about going on and having my true multi-hyphenate moment and being a director. I think that would be really challenging and scary, but fun, and I would learn so much.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that with us. And we'll be cheering you from the sidelines as you become a director and take on that new chapter. Mindy, Randelle, thank you both so much. What an inspiring way to kick off our Women's History Month series. To everybody tuning in, I hope this conversation gave you something meaningful to take with you, whether that's a new boundary to set, spark a motivation, or a simple reminder that your goals deserve space.
Again, Mindy and Randelle, thank you. And to all of you watching, thank you for joining. Thank you for being a part of our community, and we'll hopefully be seeing you again soon. Have a wonderful rest of the day.
MINDY KALING: Thank you. Appreciate it. Bye, guys.