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ALEX ROCA: Hello, and thank you for joining a very special Women Talk Money. My name is Alex Roca. And I will be your host for today's conversation. I am excited to kick off our fall event series, where we'll have three incredible discussions to share with you on betting on yourself, five key moves to master your money. And finally, your money, your future, your way. Joining me today are two incredible women. First, Ryan Viktorin. She's a vice president and financial consultant based in Framingham, Massachusetts. And second, a woman who really needs no introduction, Cynthia Erivo.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Hello.
ALEX ROCA: Hello. She is a Grammy, Emmy and Tony award-winning actress, singer and producer, as well as a Golden Globe, SAG, and three-time Academy Award nominee. You know her from dozens of iconic roles, most recently as Elphaba in Wicked, which became a nationwide sensation. And I know, I'm not the only one counting for Wicked 2 to come out. Just saying. She's a trailblazer across multiple fields of work and an unbelievable, unforgettable household name. Thank you, Cynthia, for joining us today. We are so incredibly happy to have you with us.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
ALEX ROCA: Absolutely. Today's event is called The Power of Betting on Yourself, Cynthia and Ryan. I want to start by asking, what does that phrase mean to each of you? Cynthia, let's start with you.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I think it's about knowing your worth and not really being afraid to ask for it, taking a chance on yourself before everybody else takes the chance, because I think if you start believing in yourself and what you want and believing that you deserve the thing you want, then it's easier to convince other people of the same.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think in my world, being a woman in finance, we are, let's just say, outnumbered. So we really have to continually bet on ourselves and lean on our community, our tribe, and even communities like this. And I completely agree with Cynthia that really just having that confidence in yourself, and that you're worth it, and you have value is going to resonate with whoever you're speaking with and whatever room that you're in. So I totally agree.
ALEX ROCA: Absolutely. And I think it's sometimes about allowing that space to say, I haven't quite figured it out. But I'm going to.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yeah.
ALEX ROCA: Today's event is all about ambition, resilience, and believing in yourself for the big dreams, the small dreams, and everything in between. So, Cynthia, I want to take a step back. Can you share a little bit about your upbringing and specifically what shaped your belief in your own potential?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I think my mother was a really seminal figure in helping me believe in myself, but she just never questioned that I could do anything. Honestly, since I was a baby, I always tell the story about the baby book that she has. And in it, she wrote that she thought I was going to be a singer and a doctor. So in her head, I could really do anything at the same time, as long as I put my heart to it and my soul, and as long as I worked hard for it. And it's something that she repeated throughout my life. If that's what you want, just work for it. Just make sure you put the work in for it. And so that stuck with me. It doesn't matter whether I'm running or on stage or on screen, that mantra is in my head. Just put the work in, make sure you put the work in, and it'll come to fruition.
ALEX ROCA: It sounds like that's really helped shaped your resilience. So, Ryan, you work with clients every day and see different situations and behaviors. How do you think somebody's early relationship with money could potentially shape their financial habits?
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yeah, it's funny. I think most things, it goes back to our childhood. But at the same time, it can be different for everybody. How did you see your parents or family really handle money? And did they talk about money? Was it comfortable, or was it an uncomfortable space to be in? And even if they didn't speak about it, how did you and your family move through the world relative to money? Either some are fortunate to really have had a lot of it and experience, like I said, a lot of fortune in that type of way, and some maybe not a lot in that kind of shapes it. And I've noticed that it's pretty consistent generational differences too. So the clients that I've had that might be 80 or 90 years old remember what it was like to see their parents in the Great Depression. And I get a lot of this like, listen, young lady, I know because that was shaped them in how they experienced things. And everybody from '80s remembers what their mortgage rate was at that time. And it just shapes, like I said, how you move through the world and how open you are to talking about it and how comfortable or uncomfortable you are, is really important. And I would say, my advice is to just sit with that for a moment and really be open and honest with yourself of, how do I feel about this? How has this shaped me? How is it making me feel either really comfortable in this space, or really uncomfortable in this space? So that you can try to have open dialogues both with yourself and then maybe either with a partner or a spouse, but also with a professional, if you need it. So it really shapes you. But it's OK. Everybody's starting from a certain point and everybody's different.
ALEX ROCA: Thank you for sharing that, Ryan. Cynthia, I want to come back to you because you've shared a little bit about your backstory. Can we talk about what values from that upbringing guide your decisions today personally, professionally, and financially?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: So I loved what Ryan was saying when it came to it being shaped by your childhood and what you saw, how you saw your parents handle money. And my mom from the beginning, we started with a little piggy bank from a bank that she had opened. So she'd already opened an account for me when I was a child and started saving very little amounts because we weren't rich. We didn't have very much. I think she already knew that she wanted me to have a source of financial independence. So she taught me how to save my money. Whenever I got spending money, I would put it away, and I would make it accrue and build it up. And then I would put it in an account. So I've had a bank account for a really long time, because my mother taught me to have bank account to save. And so that philosophy of saving, but also having a little fun. So my mom would take us on holidays. And we wouldn't spend very much, but we would also have a little holiday because she wanted me to travel and understand what it was to travel, but it meant that we would save a little and spend a little, save a little and spend a little. And that has followed me through my life. So I want to save money, but I also want to enjoy it, too. And I don't want to feel like what we're coming from a place of scarcity and being afraid of using it, but also being able to be sensible and know that we want to save for the future. And I've been learning as well throughout time, because, obviously, the way she handles money is not that same way I handle money now because it's a little bit different, and what I'm earning is a little bit different. I have a business advisor who helps me consistently for investments, because there are things I don't understand. And I think I've been encouraged throughout time to be OK with saying, oh, I don't understand this, but can I get some help learning about it and understanding it?
RYAN VIKTORIN: That's wonderful. Alex, can I hop in for one second? Can we all just give round of applause for Cynthia's mom? Oh, my God. Really amazing like opening a bank account. I'm very impressed.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: She really did set me up. It was really like-- And I still remember, it literally looked like a piggy bank. So we started there, and then she went with me to the bank. We opened an account. I had my own account. So as time's gone on, I've learned.
RYAN VIKTORIN: That's great.
ALEX ROCA: Ryan, keep me honest. But I feel one of the things we hear from our more successful savers as they're getting closer to retirement, when we ask them, how did you get here? Where did you start? There's usually a part in the story where they'll say, oh, my mom talked to me about it or my dad talked to me about it.
RYAN VIKTORIN: At some point.
ALEX ROCA: At some point, somebody talked to me about it. And it's usually a parental figure. So we agree. That piggy bank is absolutely fantastic. I do have another question for you, Cynthia. Going back to the finances, what does financial independence mean to you personally? And what did it feel like when you finally got there?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: For me, the time that marks it for me is the day I paid off my student loans. The day I was able to pay off my student loans, it meant that I didn't need my mom for anything. I didn't need a parent for anything. I was making enough money to take care of myself and also pay for the bills that I had. And that for me is the financial independence. It's not that I can spend whatever I want to spend, which is lovely, but it's actually that I can take care of myself, even if it's just the basics-- where I live, how I eat a phone bill, and at the very beginning, my student loans. Paying those things off, being able to pay the bills, for me, that's the top for me. Everything else is an extra.
ALEX ROCA: Absolutely. And I actually want to dig a little deeper in here because that's financial freedom. But there's a moment before that financial freedom where we feel like, you know what, it's going to be OK.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: To be OK.
ALEX ROCA: Can you remember when that was for you?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Probably when I started working right outside of drama school. So all the way through drama school, I worked. And I've been in the workplace and working on different things since I was about, I want to say, 16, because I got a job very early. The moment that that tipped over from being something that I could subsidize things with, the moment that I could pay my own way, and I could actually pay for things, and actually help my mom on certain things, that felt like, oh, I think things are going to be OK. I wasn't making a lot, but it meant that I was able to, I guess, take care of certain small things. That for me is when it was I felt like, oh, I'm OK. I can get a job. I'm making money in this job. I can save some of this money. The money that is being saved will make money for itself. So that for me, is when I felt like, OK, everything's OK. Everything else added was added. I think it was way before I started being in this part of my career. That's when I felt independent, when I was out of my mom's house on my own, paying my own bills.
RYAN VIKTORIN: That's an important moment that I see, especially for those who are just getting started where they say, whoa, this could work, but on the other side of a career, even as I work with clients who are let's say, heading into retirement, or they're in retirement, and they say, whoa, I can stop working. This worked. And so I did it. And there's some things I have to do, some actions I have to take to make sure I never put that at risk, and to make sure that I balance it all out. But whoa, I did it as well. So you see that-- I see it in a big spectrum of clients when I meet with clients in the scope of their financial picture, and that can be emotional, where people say, whoa, I did it. I actually did it.
ALEX ROCA: That's wonderful. I'm going to go simple. I remember for me that moment where I was like, I think I'm going to be OK, was when that next paycheck hit and I still had money from the previous paycheck. I was like, look at her go, she's going places.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yeah.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yeah.
ALEX ROCA: No, I think it's safe to say that financial independence is a goal for all of us. And it's important to know what's important to you, because then you can take the steps to figure out what you need to do to get there. Now, on that note, Ryan, what are some of the key steps that someone can take to achieve financial independence? And I want to caveat this because we know that it can look different for everyone, because no two financial situations are ever going to be exactly the same. But generally speaking, what are some of the key steps that we can take to move towards financial independence?
RYAN VIKTORIN: I think anybody who has been on these discussions before, where I have been here, they're going to know what I'm going to say first, which is we have to create a plan. I have been told that I should get that tattooed between my shoulder blades, because I say it so often. But even I have people say, OK, but what does a plan even mean? What are the actual pieces of it that have to exist? Now, one caveat here is I'm going to go through this really, really fast. But we have other sessions that are dedicated and go very deep on a lot of these topics. But in terms of the bones of what we need to do, we need to create a plan. We have to have some of those that foundation in place. We want to have that emergency fund. Alex, to your point, when you actually have a little bit extra in that paycheck, build it up to make sure that if something happens, that's really unexpected, you know you can handle it. But we also need to protect what we've actually been working towards and making sure we have all the positions in place and the facets of your financial plan in place to make sure that we can weather the storm, that can happen in life, like losing a job, a divorce, a loss of a spouse, but also the storm that can happen around us that we have no control of like in the stock market or with whatever the Fed is doing things like that. So there's a lot of different versions of protection here. And then invest, This is the one that I want us to focus on a lot. Because once we've taken these steps, we've created the plan, we've defined the goals that we've wanted, we've saved up some money, we're doing all the things right, women, in particular, we work so hard for this money that we just want to grab it and hang on to it and keep it and we go a little bit too much into that protect space. And then we don't invest it. And investing means putting it into things that can actually work for us. And I think Cynthia even mentioned, how can I make my investments, bring in my income or grow for me so that I don't have to keep growing and make that income as well? And there's a slide I want to pull up that just shows the power of this investing. And I know we've showed this before, but this is just an example of let's say you take $10,000 and you put it in a bank account. It's still in that piggy bank account that Cynthia has 30 years later. That $10,000 can grow to $20,000 maybe, which is great. But if you invest it in the market-- and I'm not saying that's appropriate for everybody, this is just a highlight an example that that same $10,000 could potentially be worth over $168,000. So now, think about that for every $10,000 you save and how much that the power of that investing can really be. And oftentimes, we talk about the income gap for men and women from that standpoint. But I think of this as the wealth gap, where it's like, for some reason, guys are a little bit more willing to do this. And like I said before, women just want to hang on to it. I'm going to tell you to move through the fear here. And like, this is what I talk to clients about all day, every day to try to help move through that, to try to close that wealth gap so that women and just anybody, in general, can have more financial independence. So again, I went through it really fast.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I'm literally having a conversation with my business manager tonight about it, about investing.
RYAN VIKTORIN: We got Cynthia's mom doing the right stuff. We got Cynthia doing the right stuff. I'm so impressed, so far.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I thought you would be happy with that, Ryan.
RYAN VIKTORIN: I love it so much.
ALEX ROCA: We all are. We are. Absolutely. And Ryan, please don't go get any tattoos. We'll just keep bringing you back and talk money. And you talk about planning all you want.
RYAN VIKTORIN: OK.
ALEX ROCA: And I also want to acknowledge to Ryan's point that investing can feel like taking a risk. But as we're about to hear, some risks can be worth taking, which transitions us to Cynthia, being in the spotlight, I'm sure that making decisions can't be easy with what feels the whole world watching you. So how do you decide which risks are worth taking? And how do you choose what's next for you?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Well, I mean, it's all a risk, isn't it? Because you have no idea how people are going to perceive things, how people are going to take things on. And so I listen to the small voice in my head that says, oh, this might be really interesting. This might feel a little bit scary, but you definitely learn from it. And that's the thing that tells me to go and do it. Strangely, maybe I'm a glutton for punishment. Maybe I'm a thrill seeker. I go towards the things that scare me, I move towards the things that make me fearful, because that tells me that I have something to learn from it. And it has something to show me. And often, I'll pick it based on who the character is, what the story is. And if there's something that I don't about them or I haven't met them before, then I will probably do it. I think there's nothing wrong with taking a risk, because often, you'll learn from it. And maybe you'll learn a lot. Maybe you'll learn a little. Who knows? I think also, I have a great team around me who are emboldened me to take the risks when they come, and I embolden them to let me take risks as well.
ALEX ROCA: That's fantastic. So having a strong support system is--
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Absolutely
ALEX ROCA: --a huge part of that. Excellent.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yeah.
ALEX ROCA: Ryan, I want to bring it back to you. How can someone ensure that they're prioritizing themselves financially?
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yeah. And obviously, everybody's going to be a little bit different. And even some of what Cynthia said and both on this session here, but also what you said in the past is that you prioritize self-care for yourself really heavily. You take care of your body. You take care of your mind. You take care of all of this. And I think it's really important. I actually think that taking care of your finances is a version of self-care. And again, like the fact that you have this meeting scheduled tonight, love that you're actually dedicating time because I can't imagine how busy you are on a day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month basis. So you're actually carving out time to think about this. It is a version of self-care. And to me, when we're getting towards financial independence or prioritizing yourself, it is carving out that time, but also saying, I'm worth this. I'm worth the purposeful time to dedicate to this. And sometimes getting some help like having that meeting with your business advisor or what I am for clients is to say, listen, you don't need to do any homework between the next time that we meet. The next time that we meet is your homework time. That's when we're going to dig in. Let's put time on the calendar so that I can help you with this. And it's that support system that really has to be in place. And sometimes when I meet with clients, we're talking about the math. We're talking about the numbers. But I'm like--I just met with a client yesterday. She said, well, are 50% financial advisor and 50% psychologist. How do I feel about it? What am I going to do next? How can I take the leap? What can I think about? What risks are necessary risks? And what is too risk, given my plan? Help me see through how I'm feeling about things, so prioritizing yourself. And some of my clients are like, they want to execute all the detail by themselves. They just come to me for validation for what they're doing, and they know what they're doing, and they know how to do it. And then oftentimes, on the other end of the spectrum, Cynthia, I think you mentioned this too, you may not know everything. You want to learn about it, but I would imagine you don't have the time to do the day-to-day, which is why you have a business advisor. And so that's where people like me, come into play. And so when I say, I, I'm representing all the me's that are at Fidelity. There are thousands of us across the country that are here to help you. And as we've said many times on this before, we feel like our clients are entitled to this help. There is no cost to this help to build a plan and have somebody that can sit with you and really be there with you through this process, no matter where you are in this. So please, please don't hesitate to reach out. But the final thing I want to say is, well, whenever I build plans for clients, I post about this online. I talk about this all the time. We want to automate, automate, automate. Make things as simple and streamlined as possible, but as sophisticated as necessary given the situation. So that literally applies to everybody. The more you can automate this, the less you have to proactively manually do, the easier this will be. And all of that is prioritizing your time, your value, your worth by making sure your finances are in order.
ALEX ROCA: So powerful, Ryan. Thank you for sharing that. I actually want to revisit something that Ryan, you mentioned earlier about financial planning, because as we talk about the importance of prioritizing the different parts of our lives, Cynthia, I'm actually coming back to you.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: OK.
ALEX ROCA: Someone who's built such an incredible, varied career already. What is your approach to financial planning that supports both your creative freedom, which I'm sure is so important to you and your long-term goals?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: So I have a meeting set with my business manager every quarter. We talk about what we have, what's coming up. I choose my work based on partially what I'm being paid as well, but how we're going to put that money to good use. So before we've even done the work, we go, well, if this is coming in, what do we want to save? What do we want to put away? What do we want to invest? And what do I want to keep for myself to play with? And that's always the rule for me, but it's also about, I work through my contracts with my lawyer and my team to make sure that I'm getting the best out of the contracts that I have financially, as well as work and creatively, because it both have to go hand in hand. And it means that the plans that I have going forward, I can actually subsidize. But then we have the conversation about, what is the goal? How do we meet that goal? And what do I need to do in order to continue to get to it? So I have constant goals in my head. There are things that I want for my future. There are things that I want to obtain and get for myself and my life. And it takes work and it takes time. But we are constantly in discussion about what that looks like, how that can happen, and what I need to do versus just what my business manager needs to do. But what I need to do in order to help my business manager do the work that he can do.
ALEX ROCA: I love that. So you're actually thinking of your business partner and your team as a thought partner in this process. You bring them in early, not just at the end, and say, hey, you're early.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: My business manager talks to my lawyers and my team. Once the contract comes in, I put my business manager on the phone and on the email with everyone. So that contract comes in first. And everyone is working together to make sure that it serves us in the right way.
ALEX ROCA: Such a powerful--
RYAN VIKTORIN: I love that.
ALEX ROCA: Yeah. Such a powerful message, because I think Ryan, you would agree. You would want people to bring you in earlier into the process, I'm sure.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Please. Yes. And so, of course, we can always say, in hindsight, oh, I wish you had done this. But I also think it's OK to say, it's OK if you didn't- where are we right now, right? Just making sure that we're giving ourselves a little bit of grace, too, that we don't have to do everything perfect. But I'm also hearing you Cynthia, that you have a multifaceted team.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yes.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Because in your situation, that is warranted. Not everybody needs something like that. And then I would also imagine from you, Cynthia, that income, just given your profession, might do this.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yes.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Sometimes it's really high and really low.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Sometimes it's high. Yeah.
RYAN VIKTORIN: And so having that financial plan, I would imagine it allows you to say, OK, what project do I want to do next, especially if it kind of fills my cup but maybe doesn't fill my account? A lot of my clients, sometimes they get bonus or one big bonus in the year, and then everything else is status quo or however it might be. And so making sure the financial plan is really customized and supports whatever you need at the time really makes some sense. So I love it.
ALEX ROCA: It makes all the difference. Agreed. And Cynthia, I'm going to stick with you here because I want to hear of a time where you potentially turned a no into a yes, or you had to negotiate for your worth.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: When I first did The Color Purple, and I was on Broadway, I realized that what we had gotten the contract that we had was right for when I first signed up. And as we started moving towards what was going on, I saw what was happening around me. I saw that it was bringing in lots of people. I think the Tony nomination had happened. I realized that the contract didn't match what was happening anymore. So I went back to my team. I said, we need to renegotiate the contract, because I think they were going to add a few months onto what was going to happen next. They were going to add months onto what was already the contract. So what was meant to be a year became 14 months. So I said, before we do that 14 months, we have to renegotiate what we're doing and how that's going to happen. So I went back to my team and they went back to producers, and we had to renegotiate the entire contract, and it came back with a number. And I looked at the number. And I asked my agent if I was still saying, thank you for getting the job, or if the ball was now in my court. And I could be properly paid for the work that I was actually doing. And he said, you can be paid for the work that you're actually doing. You're no longer just saying, thank you for the job, because you have proven that you are meant to be doing the job and people are coming because you are doing this work. So I said, then we'll go back. The number is not high enough. And they went back and got the number that was meant to be. The number that I meant to have.
ALEX ROCA: Heck, yeah. We are so happy to hear that.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yes. I love that. There's so much about that that I love. Sometimes I hear people say, well, I got a job offer. And I have to take it. And then another job offer comes. And they're like, wait a minute, now, I have some choice. Oh, wow. And there's that confidence there to say, again, talk about betting on yourself and saying, I got two people who want me. We are in a different negotiating table, my friends. This is very, very different. But then also saying, absolutely advocating for, if this is longer, if this is more effort, and if I really look at this value, I'm worth more. And so you want me, pay me. I love it. But that's a moment where you have to really move through it. And I love that you had that support system to just validate. And not everybody's going to have a team and things like that. But call your bestie. Call me, of course.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I have so many conversations. I had a conversation with a girlfriend of mine who was struggling about what to do about a contract she was looking at. And she didn't necessarily have a lawyer to talk to. And I was just like, I really think you should go back and ask for more. I think you should have a conversation. And I think you're worth more. And she did, and she got more. I think it's just about sometimes if you don't know and you don't have a lawyer, you don't have a team, have a conversation with someone who might be in a similar situation, but might know a little more, and just get the validation that you need in order to have the bravery to say, actually, I would like to negotiate a little bit more.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yeah. I just had a conversation with my best friend in the world. She's launching a business. And I said, is there anything I can do? And she was like, this. Just keep being my emotional sounding board at any given moment. Nothing to do with finance. Just let me lay it on you. And I can just sit in the mud with her and be present with it. And that's exactly what it is. So go to your bestie, go to your parents, aunts, uncles, friends, whatever, just as that sounding board. It can give you that confidence. You got to have somebody that says like, no, you are a bad you know what. Get in there and get more money. Just that confidence to go and do it. I love it.
ALEX ROCA: Actually. Ryan, I am loving this conversation. So I want to keep it with you. What are some tips that you would give somebody who's struggling to advocate for themselves and their financial worth?
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yes, other than calling your bestie, obviously. So part of it is doing your research. That's what Cynthia's girlfriend came to and said to her like, oh, what do I? And then Cynthia being in the industry said, no, I think you should ask for this, this, and this. That's part of research. She actually knows what needs to come. And leaning on people, I think, that's absolutely fine. And again, we have something on the screen that gives a reframe around it, which brings me, I'm going to go to the number three first, which is reframe. Like I said before, get somebody to help you get that confidence. That's what we really want. I'm a huge fan of number two, which is rehearse. And I'm not even an actress like Cynthia. She rehearses for what she has to do. But practice. Again, whatever you're going to say, whatever you think you need to say, say it in the car, in the shower, in the wherever, just practice it so that you're not having that conversation cold for the first time, for whoever you're saying it with. And my husband always thinks I'm crazy. He thinks I'm talking to myself, and I am, because I'm practicing for whatever it is, it's going to be. So I know we can download these slides later, but that's the step, process we would give a little bit of tip if you're going to go into it for yourself.
ALEX ROCA: Cynthia, you have made some bold transitions already in your career, from acting to publishing to producing. What's helped you stay confident when stepping out into the unknown? And how do you stay focused during times of criticism or times of self-doubt?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: What's helped me stay focused? I think it's just-- I'm really determined. And I know that whenever I'm doing something, I'm doing it to the best of my abilities. I'm never phoning anything in. So I think that's what keeps me grounded because I know that I've put all of the work I could possibly put into it whenever I'm doing something different. I'm never doing it half-heartedly, which I think gives me the confidence to even try in the first place. I know that I'm never going to do something half hearted, so I that whatever anyone is receiving is as much of myself as I possibly could give, whether that be in a book, or as a producer, or as an actress or as a singer. Whichever it is, whichever hat I'm wearing, I'm never unfocused. I'm always 100% there. And during times of doubt and criticism, I think, I am my biggest critic. So nobody can critique me more than I critique myself. And because that is the situation, the power that anyone else has to critique is already relinquished, because I'm already working really hard to make sure I'm doing the very best I can. And I can be very, very hard on myself. And no one will ever be harder than I am on me, because I want the best for myself, and I want to give the best out. So I'm not necessarily seek-- I'm seeking advice and I'm seeking direction from people, and I know who I'm going to. I do not have yes people around me at all. I never want to be the smartest person in the room because I can't learn. But that doesn't mean that I will take criticism from absolutely everybody, because not everyone has actual critique to give. Sometimes it's actually not very helpful. But I know who's actually doing it because they care about me and they want my work to be better. But at the same time, I want my work to be better for me as well. So I'm always digging into my work and discovering new ways to expand and make it better.
ALEX ROCA: I resonate so much with what you're saying. And I'm so hard on myself that when anybody else says it, I'm like, oh, I've already thought of that.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I already thought of that.
ALEX ROCA: I already thought of that.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yeah. I'm there. Yeah.
ALEX ROCA: Absolutely. It sounds a little from the conversation today that some of this self-doubt is also going to be fought with some self-care and maybe some self-love. This actually leads me to a two-part question for you, Cynthia. Many of your roles can be considered emotionally intense and have demanding schedules. And you've been quoted, even today, you said it, "I am a glutton for punishment when it comes to work." So how do you protect your mental health while still giving it your all?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I try to make sure that I have really good people who deal in the work of building oneself up when it comes to my emotions. So right now, I'm going to say, I'm doing a piece called Prima Facie. And that requires a lot of emotion. It's really tough, gritty work. We have an amazing intimacy coordinator around called Lizzy Talbot. And she's amazing. But I want her around whenever we're doing really tough scenes because she helps me to get back to the ground to find myself again. I have an amazing therapist who I can call whenever it gets really tough. I try to do some grounding exercises to make sure that whenever I'm of off my axis, I can put myself back together again. I was not very good at this at the very beginning of my career. And sometimes the characters come home with me, or when I'm finished with a project, it's very hard to let go. But now, I'm better at releasing some of it. And some of it has residual energy. But I know now how to work to get through those moments, to get back to who I am. But it's hard. And I wouldn't change it for the world, but you do have to have people around you who care about you and your mental health. But you also have to care just as much as they do, too. Because I know that there are people who don't necessarily have the means to have a therapist or to have an intimacy coordinator or to have those people around, sometimes you just need a good friend who understands, who can listen, who you can talk things through. Because keeping it in your head alone is never going to be the best way of working through it. Doing it on your own doesn't work. You need to have a sounding board. You need to keep communicating, what you're actually feeling out loud, because what you say it out loud, it breaks it down.
ALEX ROCA: Absolutely. I think you have done just a phenomenal job at surrounding yourself with the right people that lift you up and support you in all of your decisions, whether it's your money, your business, or just your sense of self. And I think that's so important. So, Ryan, I'm bringing back to you. What can someone do if they weren't exposed to a healthy or encouraging relationship with money from a young age? Maybe they didn't have that support system. What would you recommend for them?
RYAN VIKTORIN: So first of all, the fact, and I have to commend everybody that's on this call right now, joining something like this, the community, literally, we're called Women Talk Money. Yes, they're here for Cynthia Erivo. They're here for you, girl, I know. But at the same time, they're also here-- we see a lot of these questions in the chat are also very money related. They're saying, I'm carving out time to be in a community that talks in a way that's jargon free, that's like we're just sitting around chit chatting about money. And that's the other piece of advice I have is start to sit around and chit chat about money with your friend. Talk about it. I tend to see guys like they'll go on the golf course, and they tend to just yuk it up about things like that. And there's a blurred line between the pleasure, and then also, meaning something like golf. And there's lots of examples of this. But also, just being OK talking about money and what they invest in, how they do it. I wish women would do it more. So it's that chit chat. It could be around the fire pit with a glass of wine or whatever, like, hey, what are you doing lately? How do you think about this? Just bounce different ideas off of. And don't keep what you're doing a secret. Share it with your friends. If something is really working for you, or you work with someone who's really, really helpful, who you absolutely adore and that you can really be open with, share that with your friend. Share the love around. Cynthia, to your point, not everybody's going to have the means to have all of these people that they hire. You don't need to hire them. It can be surrounding the people in your life. It's important.
ALEX ROCA: Absolutely. And then Cynthia, how did you go about finding that support? Before you had a business manager, how do you go about maybe vetting that person before you bring them into your team?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: I ask other people. I'm one person that goes, I don't know. So I need someone to help me. What's your experience? What's your experience? Is there someone else that has a recommendation? I ask. I am a big proponent of asking questions, if you do not know. There was a time when I didn't have a business manager. So if I was going into a job, and I knew that person had already worked with this company, I would call the person who'd worked in the company and say, what is your experience? What was that like? What is the contract that you had? Can I compare contracts? Can we talk about what you might have made, what I might make? Is it comparative? How does that work? I just ask questions. I ask people who know more than I do. And those people lead me to other people who know more than I do. It's usually the pattern for me.
RYAN VIKTORIN: I love that.
ALEX ROCA: The referral tree.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yeah, absolutely.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yes.
RYAN VIKTORIN: The other thing I would say too, is and what I've heard from you a lot is you're OK saying I don't know.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yes.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Right? And being in a room with say, like, how could I possibly know everything? And especially when it comes to money, the vast majority of people are not financial professionals. They are doctors, lawyers, moms, actresses, singers. Sometimes we're everything, like Cynthia, who likes to be everything. And so at the same time, it's just, you don't have to be an expert in this area. There are so many tools where you can learn all that you want, and there's so many ways for you to get support. It's OK that you don't know this. If you do know this, wonderful. That's awesome. But if you don't, it's all right. It's OK.
ALEX ROCA: If you do, it's still OK to partner up with a business.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Yes.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Yes.
RYAN VIKTORIN: Absolutely.
ALEX ROCA: Now, I want to wrap things up because we're getting close on time. So I want to ask, excuse me, each one of you a question. Let's try to make it quick. Ryan, what is your one takeaway from today? How can someone bet on themselves moving forward?
RYAN VIKTORIN: Other than Alex telling me not to get a tattoo, loud and clear, but also, the one takeaway is just reach out for help if you need it. Ask a friend, ask a parent. Reach out to us. Just don't hesitate to ask for help.
ALEX ROCA: I love that. And then, Cynthia, what advice would you give someone who's just starting to dream big, or maybe somebody who put it on hold, and they're looking at it again?
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Take it off hold and take the risk. And know that you're actually worth the dream that you've deferred. I think that it's scary to take the first steps towards a dream, but you can't know if it will come true, if you actually don't try and make it happen. There are more people around you that are willing to help than you realize. So if you just look up for a second, look around, you'll see them. You will find them. They will be there.
ALEX ROCA: Oh, powerful words to end this session. Cynthia, Ryan, thank you. It has been absolutely incredible speaking with both of you today. What a way to kick off our fall event series. I hope you all enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. To all of you watching, thank you for joining. Please share with your friends and family, to Ryan's point. And we'll, hopefully, see you again real soon. Remember, you are worth the dream. Have a great day.
CYNTHIA ERIVO: Bye, everyone.