Show transcript
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Hello, and thank you for joining Women Talk Money. My name is Alex Roca. And I will be your host for today's event.
For those of you who celebrated Mother's Day over the weekend, happy Mother's Day. Today is a great way to keep that energy going because we're going to talk about caring for our aging loved ones that are in our lives, a topic that so many of you have asked about throughout the years.
So you might be here because you know that you're going to be taking care of somebody someday, or maybe you're curious about what you need to do to plan for your own future, or you could be in the thick of caregiving already. Wherever you are, whether you're creating the plan or already living it, this session will have something for you.
With me today to share their best tips and lessons learned about caregiving are two terrific women-- first, my Fidelity colleague, Jessica Maloy.
JESSICA MALOY: Hi there. Thanks so much for having me today. I'm very excited to be part of this conversation. As you said, my name is Jessica Maloy. And I'm a wealth planner here at Fidelity-- been in the industry for about 25 years now. And I have a real passion for making sure to help clients and their entire families understand, plan together, and be successful.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I love that. And I'm so excited, as well, to welcome our special guest, Beth Pinsker. She's a financial planning columnist at MarketWatch and author of a new book about her own experience caring for her mom at the end of her life. Beth, welcome.
BETH PINSKER: Hi, and thanks for having me. I have been writing a personal finance column for-- at various places for about the past 12 years. And I got the CFP designation in 2018.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Well, we are so glad to have you both here with us today. OK, let's jump in. I think caregiving is something that almost all of us are going to experience at some point in our life, whether it's caring for our loved ones or ensuring that we have everything set up for ourselves when the time comes. Beth, can you share a little bit about your own story? Where did that caregiving story begin?
BETH PINSKER: My story started, like so many others, with that phone call you get with bad news. You're not expecting it. But then your mom's on the phone suddenly saying, I need surgery. And for me, that's how it started. My mom needed a surgery on her back so that she could keep walking. And it was a big one. And she asked me to come down to where she was in Florida and help her manage her household because it was the time when she knew she couldn't do it.
And things progressed from there. She kept having little setbacks. And my whole caretaking journey lasted from that phone call all the way to filing her last tax return after she passed away. And I faced so many hard spots doing that that all I could do was write about it because my day job is writing a retirement column.
So I little-- would hit little stumbles. And I would write columns about it. And what I realized is there's nothing really out there for people on the financial side of caregiving that explains to you what it feels like, that puts it all together and explains to you why it's important to have paperwork in order and all those sorts of little things that you don't think about on a normal basis. And so that's why I wrote my book, which is really my story caring for my mom, but what I learned doing it as a certified financial planner and as a retirement columnist.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Now, Jessica, I want to bring you into this because I know that you had mentioned earlier when we were talking that this topic really resonates with you not only as a financial planner, but as a daughter, as a mother, as a granddaughter. Can you tell us more-- a little more about this?
JESSICA MALOY: Yes, absolutely. So Beth, your story is very familiar. I'm in a situation where that care is not needed for my mother yet. However, as we're aging, having those conversations is so important. This past year, I've lost both of my grandmothers, unfortunately, within a month of each other. But they had long, beautiful lives. And their stories are very different about the care they needed. One, much longer, needed care and-- around the clock, really, for years. And my other grandmother-- only a few months. So it's very different as to what you're going to experience, what those costs look like, and the responsibilities you're going to need to take on.
Odds are pretty high that you're going to need care or caregiving for somebody that you love, especially if you're a woman. This is a role we just naturally take on. We are natural-born caregivers. So here's a slide that kind of helps the story about what women's responsibilities really are when it comes to caregiving.
There's 59% of the roughly 37 million unpaid elder care providers-- 59% are women. Women tend to live longer than men, on average. And working women can experience an average 9 and 1/2% decrease in hourly adjusted wages when caring for an aging parent. And of course, we want to look at the costs. And that's part of why we're planning today-- is we're concerned about those expenses. Caregivers spend, on average, over $7,000 a year just on out-of-pocket costs.
So-- shows a few of the key numbers, why this planning is so important. There are many of us in a sandwich generation, where we're caring for not only our parents, but also children, in some cases, that are going through school, or you may have a special needs child. And I can't even imagine how stressful that must be, to stretch yourself so.
So caregiving, of course, is a fulfilling role. As I mentioned, as women, we are natural caregivers. This just falls for us. But it's a very-- it takes an emotional toll, a physical toll, and certainly a financial toll. We're often called to help on during our peak work hours-- the peak years of our career, as well, where you may have your highest earnings potential. That's typically later in life-- 30s, 40s-- where you're doing great building up that career and then have to step back, really, to care for somebody you absolutely love.
BETH PINSKER: That's definitely how it was for me when I was caring for my mom. And there's an added dimension to it when you're dealing with the money aspects of it because where does your money start and your loved one's money connect with it? I remember one item that always stuck in my mind was-- I was at my mom's apartment receiving the shipment from the medical supply company when she was coming home at one point. And I had to decide whether or not to spend an extra $700 to get her the air mattress for the hospital bed that would go in her room or just take the standard one that came with the Medicare package.
It wasn't my money to spend. It was her money. But I was in charge of it. She wasn't there. I had to make a decision based on what I thought was best. And these are moments where you don't know if you're doing the right thing or not. There's all sorts of guilt involved. And you just have-- you sort of to make a decision and hope you can live with it.
And what I decided at that moment was I would never regret, years later, having spent $700 on this mattress. But I would regret if my mother was uncomfortable for a second in the last measure of her life. And so I plunked down her credit card, and I paid for it.
It sticks with me that that kind of decision is one that I wouldn't make for myself. I would have taken the cheaper mattress for me. But it was for her. And so I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing and being a good steward of her money for her care that she would have needed.
And if she had been home at that moment, she probably would have taken the cheaper mattress, too. But she probably needed the air mattress to be more comfortable. So there's all sorts of emotions and stuff that gets caught up with the money at the same time.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Absolutely. And I am sure that she appreciated that nicer mattress at the end of the day. And I just-- thank you for sharing so much of your story because there's just so much that needs to be considered. So I want to bring it back to the basics before we get even further into the topic. Jessica, we've been talking about caregiving. So what exactly do we mean by that?
JESSICA MALOY: Well, there's definitely two distinct types of caregiving for your aging loved ones. You have, of course, the physical and then the financial. This slide kind of helps break this down for you. When you think of the physical items, a term you're going to hear very often, you want to be familiar with, is the six ADLs, or Activities of Daily Living. And as you can see here, these are usually items that are going to be monitored and measured to see what type of care is available, and what type of coverage, potentially.
So these activities of daily life are critical. The first one is bathing. And we have dressing, toileting, continence, transferring, and eating-- so again, all of our basic skills in life that we need. These are going to be something that-- you will hear these words again. So just get comfortable with them and know what that means.
Now, if you look at the financial side, managing finances for a loved one can be very difficult. There's a lot of emotion involved. And you're scared to make the wrong decision. It's why it's important that we plan ahead to discuss this, because this can include paying for their care, managing logistics, making sure their bills are paid on time, monitoring their accounts for fraudulent activity or just to make sure you've transferred enough from the savings into the checking. There is a lot of work that goes into managing the financial part, too.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Absolutely. And thank you, Jessica, for breaking that down for us. Beth, you mentioned earlier you were the financial caregiver for your mom. What did that entail for you?
BETH PINSKER: For me, I thought at first it was going to just be a little bit of going down there and just being on tap to see her through the surgery and that she would be back up to speed right away. But right after she had that surgery, she started to have other issues. And two weeks went by.
And I'm like, oh, man. People need to get paid. The caregivers that we have need to get paid-- her electric bill, all those things. And we hadn't discussed the particularities of any of that. I didn't know what her budget was. I didn't know how much she got in Social Security. I didn't know if she had any other money besides that. I had no idea. And she wasn't really up to talking to me about it. And there's no privacy in the hospital.
So she's not going to sit there and tell me her bank information while there's a roommate right behind a curtain who was very nosy, by the way, and talked to us constantly through the curtain. There's no way my mom's going to discuss her life savings while that woman's just sitting there, and nurses in and out and the caregivers-- and this is all very private information.
And so I had to go back to her apartment and start culling through the stacks of paper, looking at her mail, trying to figure out when does her Social Security land, does she have a pension, where is her savings, how much does she have, how many credit cards does she have, when's her mortgage due. And I found a lot of stuff there that needed to be taken care of, like she had a past due notice for her long-term care insurance, which I thought, wow, that's a big problem. If we don't pay that, we're going to lose her long-term care insurance. And we can't let that happen.
But why is she even paying a premium on her long-term care insurance while she's on-- getting a claim from them? None of it made any sense. And she wasn't available for me to ask. And so that's where you need things like the power of attorney to come into play.
We had made sure we had all of those documents in place. We had them. But we hadn't executed them. And those are two separate steps. So you have a piece of paper that says you're power of attorney.
But until you take that to the financial institutions, it's just a piece of paper.
People talk about having power of attorney. It's going to solve all your problems. But that's before you step up to the bank window, which I did. I walk up to the bank window with the papers. And they're like, no, sorry, can't help you. And this is, I think, what most people face when they try to use power of attorney.
The first answer you get is, no, not-- those papers aren't right. They aren't our papers. You have to come in with the person. They make it so incredibly difficult for you to use any of these legal instruments that you really just want to bang your head against the desk all the time. And you have to just constantly be standing your ground.
There's a whole scene in my book where I go up to the window. And I have the papers. And I literally have to just plant my feet and not leave there for hours until I get to take-- and then I have to go back and have a second appointment, and then a third appointment. And I just had to keep chipping away at it until I got it done.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: It, again, all sounds so overwhelming because if you're not ready for it, and it sounds like this was absolutely unexpected for you-- I can't even imagine.
BETH PINSKER: But absolutely common-- absolutely unexpected, but absolutely what 90% of people I've talked to have faced, if not worse. One lawyer I talked to for my book actually had to sue a bank to get her client's power of attorney accepted.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: That's too much. And I understand because, just like you said, it tends to be the norm. We don't know when it's going to happen. Now that we've gotten a better understanding of what caregiving is, let's switch gears to how we can plan for it. We can't stop the bad or the hard things from happening. But we can plan for them. So Jessica, can you walk us through how we can create a plan?
JESSICA MALOY: Yes, absolutely. So this is where the rubber hits the road. So we all know that you can be surprised by an event that might require that you step in, just like Beth, and have to suddenly know everything yesterday and be able to manage everything yesterday. And this is-- that's not the situation we want to be in if we can avoid it.
So first thing you want to do is-- let's look at this slide. There's a few steps on the caregiving roadmap. The first one really is, let's talk. You need to have open conversations with your loved ones so that you truly understand what their dreams are when it comes to their aging in place. And what are their fears? What do they want to make sure that they avoid? And what have they done already?
Work together to create a nice, tailored plan that meets their needs. How do they want to be cared for? Where? Do they want to move in with you? Do they never, ever, ever want to move in with you or anyone else? These are things you want to know ahead of time, before the event is here, so that you really can get to, how do my parents, grandparents, loved ones really want to be cared for along the way? Once you've established this very detailed plan and you're gathering information, putting together all the end-of-life wishes, your legal documents, understanding your finances, understanding any coverage you might have-- once we have this beautiful plan in place, you do have to revisit it periodically because life is going to change. We don't have an end date. There's no expiration date on any of us. And many things could happen where you need more extensive care, or maybe it's rehabilitation and you're able to go back home and it's not an end-of-life discussion. So you need to revisit and update that. And don't forget to take care of yourself.
As Beth was talking, the first thing I was thinking is just, I'm tired. I'm tired already for you. And this takes a lot out of everyone. It's not just the time, the time away. It's also the physical aspect of what you have to do and how we treat stress. You've got to rest and recharge so that you can take care of the people you love.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Absolutely. And it sounds like the earlier we plan, the better. So Jessica, I want to kind of follow up on this. What tips do you have for starting these important conversations, because sometimes that's the hardest part?
JESSICA MALOY: It is. It really is. And when I'm speaking with families, they always say, I don't know how to talk to them about this. How would I bring that up? Or they're so private. What I encourage families to do is really just be curious. Be curious about each other. State your intent. Approach this with love. And make sure that the people-- and that your loved ones understand why you are asking these questions. If you don't give that headline and explain to them exactly why you're asking this, it is going to be harder for them to just open up and tell you what their story is.
And I always recommend starting to talk about it when you're far enough away to still make jokes about it. Many, many times, I have told my mother where we're going to place her. But we know that's way far off. And so I can talk to mom about putting her in the old folks home. And we can joke about it still.
But it does open up that conversation. All jokes aside, what have you considered as we go along? You have stairs in your home. How are we going to navigate this? Where-- what's next? And how can I help? What do you anticipate my responsibilities were going to be in this situation?
BETH PINSKER: My mom used to always say, when she was talking to my grandmother and she would get exasperated-- she'd be on the phone with her. And she'd be looking at us with this look on her face like, oh my god. And she'd be like, if I get like that, just shoot me. And I'm like, OK. Well, when she went to write a living will, she basically expressed those same sentiments. And it's the same thing that she was saying her whole life. But we got a little bit more, let's say, sophisticated about it as we went along. But when I was 13, I understood what she meant the same as when I was 52. And having the documents in place only enhanced the conversations that we had because we had documents that we could show to doctors in the hospital or the hospice people to support that these were actually my mom's wishes and they weren't made in an emergency situation or in a situation where she was in an extreme amount of pain and made a decision based on that. She made all of her decisions when she was thinking about them logically and about her-- based on her morals and the way she thought about life. And we didn't really get started on that journey specifically until after my father had passed away. And it was me and her and my brother. And I was the-- I've explained to her, based on all the things I've learned in my reporting and in my CFP studies-- is that when there is one spouse left behind, they have a huge burden of planning because what they have and their decision-making does not have a natural, legally binding spouse to pass it off on. If you're in the hospital and you have a spouse, the spouse can make decisions for you, legally.
But if you're in the hospital and your spouse has already passed away, you need to designate somebody to make decisions for you, both medically and financially. And that surviving spouse typically, because of women having longer lifespans, is going to end up being a woman, whether it's a heterosexual couple or a-- an LGBTQ couple. It's likely at the end of life, it's a woman who's alone and needs somebody legally to be able to make decisions for you. So you need to put those in place, or you're going to get stuck in court proceedings-- is basically the alternative.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Yeah. And I appreciate you both sharing because what I'm hearing is if you can have these conversations early and often, it's a great way to plan. But Beth, you've shared already so much. I want to dig into what you were just talking about because sometimes, your story is closer to Beth's story. You get a call. And suddenly, you need to help a family member. So Beth, if you had the first three things that you would suggest to someone to do if they got that call, what would they be?
BETH PINSKER: I think that the most important thing to do is to have those key documents. You have to have that power of attorney and that HIPAA authorization and the health care proxy. You need to be able to make decisions for that person in some legal capacity.
I couldn't even-- I remember being in my mom's apartment. And the cable wasn't working properly. And all I wanted was to watch TV and zone out and eat snacks. It was, like, 10:30 at night. And that's all I wanted to do. And I called up the cable company to have them reboot the box. And they wouldn't do it because I wasn't authorized on the account. And I'm like, jeez, this stuff is just really, really hard. And you need this stuff set up.
Second, power of attorney is one thing. But you need to know what that person's passcode is and be able to use their phone with permission.
And one thing I point out to a lot of people-- I've written about this. I don't think I've gotten enough people to do it. You can name a legacy contact for your phone, And if you name a legacy contact, it's like naming a beneficiary on a financial account. Nobody can have access to your phone until you're dead. But they can go to the phone company that-- you're account holder and give them your death certificate. And then they will allow you access to the phone. You will inherit the phone account, per se.
And everybody needs to do this. I did this immediately for myself. It's pressing a couple of buttons. You can find the directions on the web. You can find them in my book. You can search my name and legacy contact. And it'll come up, an article I wrote about it. Do it for your kids. Do it for your spouse. Do it for your grandparents. Do it for everybody. Just go ahead. It's, like, 30 seconds of your life.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: And what's that third one?
BETH PINSKER: Oh, the third one is you need to know what the person wants, like Jessica was saying. And Jessica and I have had conversations about this in the past, too. You need to know what that person wants. And it makes-- it's just such a relief.
I think that the first conversation Jessica and I ever had years ago was about this. And you just-- you need to know-- you just need that confidence. You just-- because when I was talking about buying that mattress for my mother, you just-- you're in la-la land when all this stuff is happening. And you need some sort of grounding. And if you are absolutely sure that you are doing what your loved one wants and that you are taking the best care of them as possible, a lot of things are easier.
I knew what my mom wanted. She was very, very clear about it. And she was able to maintain her faculties, for the most part, throughout the process and tell us at each stage that it's what she wanted. But there will be times when she would be in and out of it. And I had to rely on the fact that I was following her wishes and doing the right thing. And that made it able for me to survive it, basically.
It's hard. All this stuff is really, really hard. And just to have that one thing, to know that you're on the same page, was so helpful that I wish more people would have these conversations so that when they are in the thick of it, they don't have to second-guess themselves as much.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Absolutely. And I think that's so right because it is so hard. It's a hard thing to go through. It's a hard thing to prep for. But you really broke it down into three easy steps. Jessica, once we have the conversations, once we are pulling all the legal documents together, how do we start to get organized?
JESSICA MALOY: Well, I'm glad we are bringing this up. We have to get organized because there is so much going on. And you do need good, legitimate legal documents to help you fulfill your loved one's dreams because that's what this is about-- is being able to take care for them and protect them. So the things we can do ahead of time is definitely meet with an attorney or work with someone to help put some documents together, things like the power of attorney, your HIPAA, your last will, account information, passwords, how many credit cards do we have, what accounts are out there, and how can people access them.
BETH PINSKER: Anywhere but your safe deposit box. That's the one thing that we always tell people. If you put your important documents in your safe deposit box, which may sound like a logical choice for a place to keep things safe and secure, people can't even get started. If they don't have access to the power of attorney document, they can't have access to the bank-- they can't get in there to get the document in the first place to get started.
And when I talked to lawyers for my book, they have-- most of their clients start with some sort of court proceedings to get into a safe deposit box to get the will, to get the power of attorney, to get all these documents that they need. And they have to go to court to get it. And that's just-- it's just more time and money and mental energy than you need to spend.
Pick a better-- a shoe box is better than the safe deposit box, to be honest with you. But an online secure place with many people to have access to it is great. A dedicated folder-- my mom was great at labeling things just in manila folders in a file drawer. The tab said "life insurance." And the life insurance was in there. The tab said "death certificate." And my dad's death certificate was in there, which I needed to get in with the power of attorney process.
Everything I needed was properly labeled and in the folder except for the stuff that wasn't, of course. There were a few things that she wasn't perfect with. And I had to go digging. But I think, Jessica, you had trouble with a death certificate-- a birth certificate at one point, I remember.
JESSICA MALOY: Yeah, so many times.
BETH PINSKER: If you don't put things in a logical place, you can't find them. It's a scavenger hunt is what we always say.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: No. I actually appreciate that. I'm going to have to revisit my safe deposit box after this conversation because I'm pretty sure that's where my legal documents are. But I do want to keep us moving along. I wanted to talk a little bit about our care plan. So one of the most important parts is creating one that ensures that we can pay for it when the time comes. So how are we going to pay for our own care? Now, how much does-- how much care tends to cost? And how can we pay it? Jessica, can you tell us a little bit more, or Beth, can you tell us a little bit more about that?
BETH PINSKER: Yeah, care costs a lot is what I'll say. And you don't know how much it costs until you're actually in it because it's so widely variable based on where you are in the kind of care you need. I think there's a slide that will show you some basic estimates. But it's basically a-- you can think about it in a-- as a hierarchy.
At-home care is less than a facility. Private care is more expensive than-- or care that you contract directly is less expensive than care from an agency. Assisted living is less than full-time nursing care. So you can scale things that way.
I can tell you from experience, caring for my mother cost, at the beginning of her journey, about $3,000 a week, which sounds just like an enormous amount, but was fairly standard, from what I've found. A nursing home in a populated area can easily run you $12,000 a month. It's just what things are costing these days.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: And how do people typically pay for that, because that's a lot of money?
BETH PINSKER: That is. And so the first thing you want to do is figure out what costs are covered by somebody else besides the person or the family. Medicare will not cover long-term care costs. But they will cover your hospital stays and a short-term rehab stay.
A lot of people get confused about that and think Medicare will cover nursing homes and long-term care, they'll cover at-home care. But that's not the case. Medicare is a short-term-- per episode, you get a certain allotment of days. And all of that information is available online before we get into the nitty-gritty of it.
But beyond what Medicare covers, you might have-- you or the-- your loved one might have long-term care insurance that will cover a portion of it. You might have savings that will cover a portion of it. And if you don't have anything, then there's Medicaid. And Medicaid will cover long-term care. But you have to qualify. And you need a very, very low level of assets and a very low income.
So it's below-- typically in the $2,000 range of assets and in the $2,000 range or below, sometimes, for monthly income. And if you think about the standard Social Security, and if you have a pension on top of that, a lot of people are above that Medicaid limit, which is why you need some planning in place. And Jessica would be the expert on that part of things.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I appreciate that. That's an excellent segue because, Jessica, you talk to clients all the time. How do you talk to them about saving for their own care costs?
JESSICA MALOY: Well, it can be somewhat of an overwhelming topic because your expense is kind of unknown. It's unknown in its timing. It's unknown in its amount. As I mentioned earlier, recently, my grandmother's passing-- one, she lived independently until she was 85, stayed in her home, and then was able to transition to assisted living for two years.
She only needed a nursing stay for a month, whereas my other grandmother-- she had dementia and Alzheimer's signs and needed full, around-the-clock care. We were able to keep her at home for most of her life. But the last few years, she physically needed more than what they could do at home. So then us 24 grandchildren just rounded up at the nursing home every day. They got to know us pretty well.
So those costs can vary a whole lot. We're not sure what the level is going to be. So it's important to save early and often, as much as you can. So many people may be familiar with an HSA, or a Health Savings Account. This is definitely a great tax-efficient way to save for your medical costs. And if you don't reimburse yourself through these plans throughout the year, you actually can leave the funds that you've saved inside those HSA plans and accumulate them to help cover medical costs in your own retirement.
So I try to encourage people to resist that draw, to say, don't reimburse yourself. Just save it for later. You'll appreciate it. Roth IRAs, too-- we're putting in post-tax money in that Roth IRA. But potential earnings can grow tax-free, which means the withdrawals could potentially be tax-free for your health care.
So I always talk to younger, healthier clients about the fact that we don't necessarily want to have to cover 100% of this bill ourselves. And we need various places to cover these expenses from, one of them, potentially, being long-term care insurance. And we insure our homes for a house fire. Why would we not insure our lives for health care that we know we are going to need at some point, to some extent? I just always encourage people to consider long-term care insurance. Explore it. Educate yourself. Know what the costs are, and the benefits, before you kick it out of your plan. So get to those things because that's just another way where we can defer those funds and, hopefully, allow somebody else to pay for those medical costs for us.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Absolutely. Now, we've been talking a lot about having conversations with loved ones. Jessica, we get this a lot on the chat. What if you're planning on your own? Say you're single, or maybe you don't have kids, or maybe you have kids that don't want to help out. Then what?
JESSICA MALOY: That can be a little daunting. And I have run into this situation with families before, and single aging clients. It is daunting to consider, well, who's going to take care of me now? And where am I going to go? I always say planning early, taking charge of your life and your future, and making those plans while you're completely able to act on them is critical.
I do have a story about a lovely woman who I worked with. And she was single, no children, a niece and nephew. And all of her siblings were up north. She'd visit there once a year. But there was no one here who could help step in if she needed additional care. We had a very thorough conversation about what mattered to her.
And within a month, she had moved up north to be within a mile of her siblings, researched all the health care that was available to her in the area, and sold her home here. I've never seen anybody move so fast. But she definitely took charge of her future and made those plans now while she could.
And there are about 22 million people out there with you that are doing this alone. The good news is you don't have to debate anybody about where you want to be. There's no compromise. This is your plan. So again, take action while you can.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Thank you for that, Jessica. I want to turn it back to you, Beth. As her caregiver, what's one thing you wish you talked to your mom about earlier?
BETH PINSKER: I think the thing that I didn't know the most about was my parents' finances. I realized when I was looking through their papers after they-- I brought boxes back from Florida that I had no idea how much they made in their entire lives until I looked at their tax returns because my mom had a box of them. And I had no idea how they kept their money, even though I had gone through this whole financial planning course.
And it turns out they were teachers. And as typical for teachers or public service workers, they had all their money tied up in annuity contracts. And when it-- push came to shove and she was sick, we needed to break into her money in a big way, and fast, and we couldn't. And that was very frustrating to me because that's not how modern portfolios-- that's not how financial planners tell their clients to keep their money these days.
You're supposed to have a bucket of ready cash that's safe and liquid that you can access for emergencies and for spending in retirement. And then you're supposed to have some long-term savings. And annuities are great as a feature. But they're not supposed to be the whole thing. Their whole pie was in an annuity. And we needed cash. And it was hard to come by. And I think that if I had known more about that, if I had had that conversation earlier, I would have said, mom, do you have enough money? How are you keeping your money?
She would have been like, don't worry about it. We'll be fine. And that's as far as I might have gotten with her at that point. And I wish I had pressed harder and maybe tried to educate her a little bit more and taken the reins a little bit more earlier so that we weren't stuck in that last moment.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I want to follow up on that and maybe dig a little deeper. When you think back to everything that you had to do unexpectedly, is there anything else that you would do differently?
BETH PINSKER: We did the best we could. We hit a lot of pitfalls. And we had a lot of trouble. But we got through it. Everybody gets through it. There's a solution to every-- of these problems. It's just-- it's easier if you know some things beforehand to make it better and so that you have to pay less attention to the financial nuances and paperwork and stuff like that because you want to spend your attention on your loved one.
I wish I had spent less time doing long-term care insurance paperwork and more time at the hospital. But we did the best we could. We did what we had to do. And my mom knew all along what was going on and was able to participate in the process with us. And there was nothing that she was upset about. And so that gives me peace at this point, that she would be proud of me for handling her finances as well as I did. And I hope-- I always had this question all along. She didn't trust electronic banking at all. And I was operating in two different states and moving back and forth and flying this way and that.
And I would have to deposit some of her checks with the bank app on my phone. And I always thought that she was going to be mad at me about that. But we never spoke about it because I didn't want to know. But I don't think that she would be. I think that she would be proud. And that makes me happy.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: I'm positive that that was the case. And thank you, Beth. You have shared so many great tips today, so much of your story. And you wrote that fantastic book that we're all going to go get, My Mother's Money. You can see it on Beth's website, BethPinsker.com. And you will be able to preorder it there.
Now, I want to have one final question before we wrap up of both of you. What is one thing that you can do today that you will be glad you did later? I'll start with Jessica.
JESSICA MALOY: Be curious. So I'll go back to that. Talk to start the conversation. And if you're scared, call us to talk. We will help you. Practice this conversation with your planner. Know what you should be talking about before you approach it with your family, even. That way, you can kind of work out some of the stress points. But I would say talking and being curious-- biggest thing to do today.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: And Beth, what would you say?
BETH PINSKER: I'd say get out your phone, go to Settings, press the Legacy Contact button, and just do it-- the best 30 seconds of your day.
ALEXANDRA ROCA: Absolutely. Beth, Jessica, thank you so much for everything you've shared. I want to kind of just second what Jessica said about everybody's situation is different. So be curious. Talk to your family. And talk to us. If you're not sure about your own plan, because everybody's situation is different, it's worth the conversation.
Now, if you haven't already, make sure that you join the community. Scan that QR code to download the calendar, and you'll be able to see all of the different events and more. Now, that's a wrap. Beth, Jessica, thank you, again, for everything that you shared today. And to all of you watching, thank you for joining and have a great day.